Bernard Gouw, a social impact specialist who spent four and a half years at B Lab developing the Human Rights, Fair Work, and JEDI impact topics, joins us for a practical and behind-the-scenes conversation about one of the most nuanced areas of the new B Corp standards. Bernard recently left B Lab and now works as an independent consultant, supporting companies more directly on social impact, human rights, fair work, and JEDI implementation.
In our conversation, Bernard explains why JEDI became one of the seven core impact topics in the new standards and how it differs from both Human Rights and Fair Work. Human Rights, as Bernard puts it, is largely about minimums. Fair Work focuses primarily on a company’s own workers. JEDI asks broader questions about how resources, opportunities, power, and experiences are distributed across different groups, inside and beyond the workplace.
We also explore the structure of the new JEDI requirements. Bernard explains why B Lab starts with data and stakeholder feedback, why disaggregated data can reveal patterns that aggregate data hides, and why that information should be treated as a signal for further inquiry rather than a final diagnosis. From there, we discuss the menu of JEDI actions, including foundations, within the workplace, and beyond the workplace, and why B Lab intentionally avoided making general staff training the default answer.
The conversation also gets into some of the harder tensions behind the standard: the anti-DEI backlash in the United States, legal and cultural concerns about demographic data collection in Europe, the decision to allow companies to use terms like belonging, fairness, access, and equality, and the challenge of building a global standard that still makes sense in very different local contexts. Listen in for a grounded conversation on what the new JEDI topic is asking of companies, why it matters, and how B Corps can approach the work with more clarity, humility, and care.
What You’ll Learn:
- Learn about the new JEDI rules and what was missing in the previous B Corp Standards.
- Hear the difference between three important topics: JEDI, Human Rights, and Fair Work.
- Explore the requirements for JEDI 1 and how companies can support employees in healing trauma.
- Discover how the ‘menu’ of 19 actions and its categories was created for flexibility and where Bernard suggests you start.
- Recognize when to work with a specialist (internal or external) and how to define that specialization.
- Understand the feedback Bernard and his team got about the new standards and why certain topics didn’t make it into the requirements.
“One thing that’s very well-established within the DEI space is this idea of needing data and evidence to base your decision on.” — Bernard Gouw
“What the data and the scientific evidence show is that general staff training on diversity, equity, and inclusion generally does not work, and that’s why it’s not one of the options in the ‘menu’.” — Bernard Gouw
“Stakeholder engagement is key. So, it is important that a company doesn’t just do what they think is right in isolation – there has to be some degree of live testing – to be compliant with standards.” — Bernard Gouw
“I hope readers will actually be quite excited by the JEDI requirements.” — Bernard Gouw [01:04:15]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
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Bernard Gouw – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardgouw/
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V2 Standards: Human Rights (w/Bernard Gouw): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/v2-standards-human-rights-w/-bernard-gouw
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V2 Standards: Fair Work (w/Bernard Gouw): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/new-standards-unpacking-fair-work-w-bernard-gouw
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Oxfam Inclusive Language Guide — Resource: https://policy-practice.oxfam.org/resources/inclusive-language-guide-621487/
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WCAG Accessibility Standards — Standards: https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/
Previous Episodes on the V2 B Corp Standards:
- V2 Standards: Human Rights (w/ Bernard Gouw): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/v2-standards-human-rights-w/-bernard-gouw
- V2 Standards: Fair Work (w/ Bernard Gouw): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/new-standards-unpacking-fair-work-w-bernard-gouw
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V2 Standards: Environmental Stewardship & Circularity (w/ Brigitta Nemes): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/new-b-corp-standards-environmental-stewardship-circularity-w/-brigitta-nemes
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V2 Standards: Government Affairs & Collective Action (w/ Grace Son): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/new-b-corp-standards-government-affairs-collective-action-grace-son
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Gratitude
Thank you to Corey Lien, Nozomii Torii, and Kirsten G. Bryant for being our monthly contributors at Beyond the B!
