In this conversation with Erinch Sahan, Business and Enterprise Lead at the Doughnut Economics Action Lab, and Vincent Stanley, Director of Philosophy at Patagonia, we continue to dig into the growing tensions and trade-offs within the B Corp movement.
Together, we explore whether current B Lab standards adequately address issues of ownership, governance, and power. From critiques of “win-win” narratives to questions around false equivalence, the conversation highlights the need for greater clarity, stronger accountability, and a more honest reckoning with what structural transformation in business really looks like.
For anyone working within or alongside the B Corp movement, this episode prompts reflection on where the line is drawn and whether the “big tent” has grown too large to maintain its original purpose. Can B Corps serve as credible vehicles for systems change, or are they at risk of becoming tools to legitimize the status quo? Tune in for a candid look at the future of values-based certification and what is required for business to serve the common good.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Nespresso and the limits of the B Corp "big tent."
- Critical reflections on our episode with Nespresso’s Lucy Bai (and what it missed).
- The inclusion of multinational subsidiaries in the B Corp community.
- False equivalence between purpose-driven and profit-maximizing companies.
- Why accurate language and standards are key for credibility.
- Lessons from Patagonia’s collaborative and independent approaches.
- The structural foundations of truly mission-driven businesses.
- Profit maximization vs. stakeholder responsibility.
- Ways to use B Corp legitimacy to support deeper change.
- Challenges of shifting ownership and governance models in large companies.
- Reasons that impact business models and point systems still matter.
- Growth vs. transformation: the tension between “playing the game” and systemic change.
- Leveraging the B Corp movement to give oxygen to emergent economic models.
- What certifications can't capture about lived values and embodiment.
- Why company structure must support values, not just culture.
- Creating on-ramps for deeper transformational change, not just sufficiency.
Quotations:
“The function of having multinationals [in the B Corp community] or having a ‘big tent’ is that the larger enterprises can learn from the smaller, that those standards become and remain prominent.” — Vincent Stanley [0:14:12]
“Are we going to change things by remaining in the straitjacket of maximum accumulation to capital? Or are we going to change things by redesigning business and economics so that capital finance is in service to the living world and to people?” — @ErinchSahan [0:21:12]
“It's those edges of capitalism where a different formulation is emerging that I would urge [B Lab] leadership to focus on.”— @ErinchSahan [0:48:36]
“We need to recognize limitations of what's certifiable – and we need to then use the power of the movement and the model and the discussion it unlocks to drive something deeper.” — @ErinchSahan [0:59:29]
“It’s not because [Patagonia] created a culture. It’s because the company permitted a culture that was inherent in the people who came to work there. That is critical to the work we’re talking about.” — Vincent Stanley [1:00:43]
“B Lab as a platform can be a significant force for good.” — Vincent Stanley [1:06:48]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
- Erinch Sahan: https://doughnuteconomics.org/members/65
- Doughnut Economics Action Lab: https://doughnuteconomics.org/
- Erinch Sahan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinch-sahan/
- Struggle for the Soul of the B Corp Movement w/ Erinch Sahan: https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/struggle-for-the-soul-of-the-b-corp-movement-enrich-sahan
- Vincent Stanley: https://www.vincentstanley.com/
- Patagonia: https://www.patagonia.com/
- The Responsible Company: https://www.vincentstanley.com/book.html
- Vincent Stanley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincent-stanley-b1248917
- Patagonia's Take on the B Corp Movement (w/ Vincent Stanley): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/vincent-stanley-patagonia-b-corps
- Nespresso's Side of the Story (w/ Lucy Bai): https://go.lifteconomy.com/blog/nespresso-b-corp
- Winners Take All: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/539747/
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